Delight in Disorder
by Robert Herrick (1591 – 1674)
A sweet disorder in the dress
Kindles in clothes a wantonness:–
A lawn about the shoulders thrown
Into a fine distractión,–
An erring lace, which here and there
Enthrals the crimson stomacher,–
A cuff neglectful, and thereby
Ribbands to flow confusedly,–
A winning wave, deserving note,
In the tempestuous petticoat,–
A careless shoe-string, in whose tie
I see a wild civility,–
Do more bewitch me, than when art
Is too precise in every part.
This is the first older poem I've assigned you folks--from one of the "Cavalier Poets" of the early 17th century. Be sure you understand the meaning of the poem (what's he talking about?). See a word you don't understand? Look it up. Answer one or more of the following questions: Which metaphor(s) do you find most vivid? Why? Can you find the oxymoron? Do you find the poem sexist, seductive, or just plain silly? Any connection to our current dress code issues or general ideas about dress and style? As on the last challenge, respond to at least one person whose posted before you.
28 comments:
It seems that he is explaining his apathy and carelessness toward getting dressed. He describes the disorderly wantonness that his coat is in, the careless shoe string, the neglectful cuff to his shirt/coat...
Toward the end of the poem he calls civility "wild..." Like a piece of art which is too ordered and precise to be appreciated.
I can totally relate to this poem. It's much better than last week's poem, in my opinion. It is similar in that it mentions the contrast between chaos and order.
Disorder is definitely much more delightful.
I think the narrator is expressing his sexual draw towards someone (presumably a woman indicated by the lace) because he finds the dress she wears arousing. Ironically, he is aroused by something covering the body; one would expect sexual attraction at its height when there is nudity. This, I beleive, is the oxymoron: the author indicates his enchantment with the twists and ties of the woman's attire from a curious perspective, he sees in the conventionally conservative confinements of clothing a "wild civility". In total, the narrator finds the confusion and carelessness in clothes whereas the traditional purpose of clothes is structure and prudence.His point, in my opinion, is that the sexiness of this woman still seeps through the confinement of clothes; moreover, when draped on her, her sexiness transpires through to the clothes and makes them arousing as well.
In the poem, delight in disorder, the narrator describes his feelings for of wild civility. He explains that when a women appears "out of the orderly fasion," he gets sexualy arroused by their disorderlyness. So, he's saying that people who try to appear sexy are not as sexy as people who are themselves. This is what the title means: delight in disorder. The narrator is delighted by disorderly atire.
The most vivid metaphore for me is the "shoe-string" that reveals a "wild civility." That term "wild civility" contradicts itself because most people would consider something wild, uncivil. I can sort of see what he's getting at. The way she tied her shoe is careless, yet the author finds something beautiful about every careless thing she's wearing. I agree with diana in that the author finds "sexiness (that) still seeps through the confinement of (her) clothes."
Though the poem was written in the 17th century, the people of their time were probably dealing with some of the same issues about women's dress as we are now. The poet is saying that a women doesn't need to wear nice, neat clothes that show off her skin to look beautiful, or atleast this particular woman that he seems to be attracted to. Back then they were probably dealing with a conflict with religion (religious leaders would condemn women showing off their legs and skin).
I would have to agree with all of the previous comments. Just as meowingremon and Diana stated, the author’s attraction is to the woman's disorderly sense. The poem mentions a "wild civility" that bewitches the author and that serves as an oxymoron. Most men seem to be attracted to a woman with a crisp, “put together” sense of style, but this man has a different sort of attraction. He finds himself lured to a woman with a “sweet disorder in her dress” and seems to be turned off by women with a style that “is
too precise in every part.” In this way, the author compares an effortless beauty to a “made up” beauty.
I feel that the narrator is expressing a seductive image in this poem. He states that it is a "fine distraction" which I feel is that he is drawn and distracted by the beauty of the certain person who is wearing the dress. He is just head over heels for this person and hes explaining why he is so crazy in love for this person as he says "do more bewitch me", he is so carried away by the beauty of this person that he gets distracted very easily. I agree with everyone above me who thinks that he is sexually attracted to the person all dressed in the "wild civility".
in the poem, the author is describing his emotion and how he is drawn to the woman by her "disorders". It reminds me of how there is more beauty in something that is imperfect rather than something that is perfection. The "wild civility" reminds me of the imperfect pat of a human. We as humans tend to achieve perfection but as we find we are unable to reach it, we can see how much is achieved without perfection, in a personal sort of way.
I agree with Diana's irony. I believe that it can be said that this poem has to do with the dress code of today. I say this because many men think that it is sexy when a woman is in revealing clothes, but in this poem the author (who is a male) thinks that a woman can be sexy even with clothes that cover her body.
This poem to me seems to express the author's complete lust for this woman (indeed it is a woman because of the reference to lace...unless he is a wildly flamboyant man..."
The author is delighted by the woman's attire because it is in disorder-it is chaotic and not the every day precise exactness that would be seen on the more conservative people of the time.
A metaphor which stood out to me was "an erring lace, which here and there enthralls the crimson stomacher". The color crimson seems to represent lust and passion. Also the 'tempestuous petticoat" seems to suggest his arousal- his strong and turbulent emotions rushing inside of him. An oxymoron could be 'wild civility'-because wild is uncivil-and civility is tame... This poem connects to our dress code because this poem suggests that the outfits worn represent the people who wear them-so chaotic and wild clothes can make a person feel the same- precise dull clothes can not invoke sexual feelings.
I love what James said, "There is more beauty in something that is imperfect rather than something that is perfection."
In "Delight in Disorder" i feel the title says it all. Robert Herrick is writing about disorganized attire and how much he is fascinated by it. He says "Do more bewitch me, then when art is too precise in every part." He is saying that the "careless shoe string", the "lawn about the shoulders," the "erring lace" and the other clothing or lack of, is more intriguing then a perfect art piece. I agree with Diana in that "wild civility" is the oxymoron. The narrator i feel is relating these two words to the situation. Her shoe laces are tied in a wild civility just as she is dressed in a wild civility; wearing appropriate clothing inappropriately.
I believe the narrator has a definite attraction to the person talked about in the poem. Words such as "sweet disorder" and "fine distraction" help prove my point. I also think the author intended to leave out the gender of the person talked about because this situation could be for a man or woman, looking at either a man or woman. It could be anyone.
The poem is a good one that is definatly writen by a guy. The poem seems to raise the suductive tention that the man in the poem is feeling. "a sweet disorder in the dress" is what the first line states. it is, in a way, kinda sexy. on the other hand the poem is a lil silly. the man in the poem could just be a wierdo that checks out every single girl he sees and writes a poem about her. i dont know.
Literally, it seems the narrator drolls about dressing up in some dishevelled manner causes a sort of "wantonness" within himself and arguably others. However, where he jests, the narrator goes beyond the idea of dressing up unkemptly and puts the concept into the beauty of imperfection in art, and, because art is inspired by everything, everything in life. So really, I think it's more of a promotive nonconformist sort of poem, and one that Thoreau would have probably thought was absolute gold. Everyone seems to think it's about a certain girl, which it could very well be, but she's never mentioned directly. Back in the 17th century, men wore lace around their necks, and some of those other flamboyant things were worn by men (possibly to show their wealth) so the narrator could be talking about himself or actually anyone really. I think James P (meowingremon) has the same idea I have, in that "disorder is definitely much more delightful."
I am going to have to agree with all of the other comments. It seems that the narrator is talking about this lust for a significant other (most likely a women in the narrators case). He looks at her with lustful eyes. He analyzes this woman's clothing, in such a way that he appears to be attracted to her disorderly side. He says, "do more bewitch me, that when art is too precise in every part." this statement shows his lust for this woman just by looking at her. The author is fascinated with the fact, this young woman's disorderly sense.
I find the poem to be full of lust,and a sense of seduction. Also i must have to agree with what Carina said about this connecting to our current dress code. With how men and women look at each other and judge by just what they are wearing, however; this poem is the opposite.That is does not really matter what clothing she is wearing, i find her to be sexy.
Great comments so far, gang. I think many of you located the oxymoronic "wild civility." I'm also very excited that Allicia joined in from Maine. Now let's throw another wrinkle into the question--for those who post from here on in. Look at the specific metaphors for the woman's dress and appearance. What do they say about the speaker's emotion or state of mind? What do they say about love (or some other thing)? Choose one or two specific ones to talk about and respond to a previous post.
This poem gave me images of a woman obviously. The narrator expresses his libido and attraction of the female and her clothing. I wouldn't go far to say there is anything too deep and profound in this poem, to me the narrator is simply stating how he feels and it happens to be ironic, as everyone pointed out. I agree with what Janoah said. He is a kind of weird guy who thinks that it is attractive when women wear conservative clothes inappropriately. The "tempestuous petticoat" metaphor made me think that this man's state of mind is off balance just like the clothes that the woman is wearing.
Well Mr. Hodara i think that the dress is symbolizing that love in human nature is not perfect. That every person does have quirky traits and is not faultless. Without this insight love would be synthetic. The dress is not perfect, "An erring lace, which here and there...A cuff neglectful, and thereby
Ribbands to flow confusedly,–." Everybody is attracted and drawn towards different traits and quirks. This is what makes us individual. The author seems to be attracted to the imperfections. I agree with Alecia on this one "He finds himself lured to a woman with a “sweet disorder in her dress."
In this poem the narator is explaining his attraction to the disorderly. He states this on the first line by saying "A sweet disorder in the dress" I would have to agree with james in that there is more beauty in something imperfect than in something perfect and this seems to be the reason for the narrators attraction to the disorderly dress. This poem connects to our current dress code when it says "a fine distraction" The people that created the dress code ststed that one of the reasons for the dress code is distraction.
I originally thought there were two prominent metaphors in this poem. This was until I saw the date and upon further investigation discovered that people in 1674 used the term lawn to define fabric instead of a grass yard.
The second metaphor I found was the one relating to music. A “disserving note” could be relative to music and the way that it flows like the fabric in the dress. The music could symbolize the chaotic flow of the dress as a part of a song and how it may at times seem to have no set order to it. In the next line the author uses the word “tempestuous” which literally means a strong conflicting emotion, so it is logical to say that by using the music metaphor the author is invoking an emotion that would not be characteristic of what one might think when they see the dress in person.
The narrator obviously has lust for the woman wearing the garment. We can see this right away in the first two lines by words like "sweet," "kindles," and "wantonness." However, by further examination of the language, we can extend the descriptions of the dress to represent the narrators feelings for the woman wearing the dress. As the "lawn about the shoulders" detracts from the visual orderliness/precision of the dress, so to does it distract the narrator--His eyes become distracted and in turn attracted to her. I love the double meaning of "enthrals." The lace not only enthrals the the stomacher portion of her dress, but also the narrator. The use of "confusedly" has the same effect. The ribbands of the dress flow confusedly, just as the narrator's emotions do; he is falling for an imperfect woman, intuitively. He is slightly conflicted and surprised by these powerful, abnormal emotions, for people are "supposed" to be attracted to "precise" and put together women: "winning wave...tempestuous petticoat." But, he is won over by this tempestuously dressed woman and his emotions are consequently tempestuous--he sees himself as a non-conformist, but pushes such feelings aside: "A careless shoe-string...in whose tie I see a wild civility." He notes the careless shoestring and how it creates an effect of wild civility in regards to the dress, but I think the narrator is characterizing himself as careless rebel going against the norm, for he realizes the potential of his spontaneous connection. The "tie" represents his thoughts of the potentially perfect bond/relationship of opposites attracting where she would "wild" and he is "civil." This presents a role reversal and adds to the rebellious nature of his lust, for women are generally "civil"/obedient and men are generally "wild"/dominant. Perhaps he is turned on by the thought of a "wild" woman in control.
I believe Robbert Herrik is saying to be true to ones personality because that is what the opposite sex finds most attractive. Love is seen in his eyes to be less formal. "A cuff neglected, and thereby Ribbands to flow confusedly." The cuff is referring to the uptight people who are not seen while the people who does not look at everything seriously is admired.
"Kindles in clothes a wantoness." The author is being roused by the "disorder of the dress" and his libido for people who are careless in what they chose to wear. This is a metaphor for those who are aroused from appearance not personality.
I agree with Trevor about the authors viewers. Although he makes a good point, I do not understand why he would want to write a poem seducing himself. Even if he has a big ego, I could not see any man speaking about himself like that. He could be directing it to another woman or man.
I agree with Libby's response, those are the same ideas that went through my head, except the part about the shoelace tie as a symbol for the bond he sees between them and the role reversal he might desire, that was a good observation. I thought this poem about how the author was fascinated and seduced by his girlfriend/wife/maybe even a stripper (?) and how he finds her style which was using upper class high society clothing with a mentality of a more down to earth free and careless individual's twist (with all of the "erring laces" and what not). The image that stood out to me the most was "the careless shoe-string in whose tie i see a wild civility" This supports my idea that she gives the clothing more aliveness and sexual appeal by the way she wears the high class clothing than how a proper lady would wear it.
I thought this could relate some how to the students of Seabury dress. They wear what is in the guidelines, but push it to the point where they feel that they can express their individuality. Or... for most, you just wear what ever you have, however you end up putting it on and going to school in the morning, which in a way could be a subconscious way of addressing your personality and characteristics as well, which probably comes out to show your deeper nature in the end.
I agree with Diana’s starting comment about how he is lusting over disorder. I think this is an overall metaphor for human life. It seems like he is saying how the unexpected and disorderly things are what arouse us. The “wild civility” shown is like the uncivilized nature all humans have. It separates us from one another and I believe Herrick is saying that this is what makes people attracted to one another. He says how it is more effective when art is not precise, “Do more bewitch me, than when art Is too precise in every part.” I think it refers to how the constant thought of how we perceive perfection is bad. Its a façade that makes it hard for people to fall in love. Because we base our attractions on perfections perhaps that is why there are so many divorces in America. I think Herrick is embracing the attraction for someone for being imperfect. This is a love that can last because it does not dwell on the façade of the couple.
I disagree with the idea that this poem is revolving around lust. Although this can be assumed being that the author is speaking of the dress of a woman, this does not immidiately lead to lusty desires.
I believe his feeling about the "wild civility" of the dress is a symbolic for life in general, on a much grander scheme than just the appeal of a woman's dress. Overall, he is talking about perfection in the lack of perfection, and the appeal of flaws. He also speaks of a balance between chaos and order, and how too much order is actually less appealing than a careful balance between the two.
I disagree with the idea that this poem is revolving around lust. Although this can be assumed being that the author is speaking of the dress of a woman, this does not immidiately lead to lusty desires.
I believe his feeling about the "wild civility" of the dress is a symbolic for life in general, on a much grander scheme than just the appeal of a woman's dress. Overall, he is talking about perfection in the lack of perfection, and the appeal of flaws. He also speaks of a balance between chaos and order, and how too much order is actually less appealing than a careful balance between the two.
I like this piece...Even though her clothing is flawed, he still finds her "bewitching" and attractive. The character doesn't expect the woman to be perfect in every detail, and even prefers it that she is not so. I completely agree with Adrian's explanation of the title- it makes perfect sense. Also, I am in accordance with Wainani, who "agrees with everyone above me who thinks that he is sexually attracted to the person all dressed in the "wild civility"."
I think the narrator is talking about his feelings toward a women prolly very sexualy. i love how simple the poem sounds yet could be very complex if broken down. A sweet disorder in the dress reminds me of how you can have a dress and it could be total chaos yet look so beautiful so sweet on and a mess to figure out how to wear. i love the simplisty of the shoelase. in a sexist view, feminist would see this as demeaning and only in a sexual view. the women as only and object and nothing more. 'A winning wave' i could just image a women wavign to a man, and he melts with excitment. i agree with dianas view of the sexual part/draw to the women issue. overall the poem was very interesting and exciting
I would agree with Diana's comment on the oxymoron being his arousal towards the women even though she is wearing clothes, but I also believe that there are deeper elements. The man is not only aroused when the women wears clothes, but also by the clothes she is wearing. This is where another oxymoron occurs. Instead of being drawn towards clothes that are revieling, like most other men would, he likes the ragity and "disorderly" fashion of her clothes. Another oxymoron comes up in the when describing a "wild-civility", taking two opposites, and using them together to compare the women's attir
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